threesixty
11:45 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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stewie
Are we not holding him to a higher standard then we have other managers because we dont like him?
Thats what seems to be happening here.
I cant think of any manager we have had in the last 10yrs that would have got the results Moyes has this season and still have half the fans sceptical about them.
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LeroysBoots
11:25 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Maybe he has better staff around him
Maybe he feels more empowered now he has a longer contract
Maybe the players buy in to what he is saying
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stewie griffin
11:17 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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hard not to like Moyes0 - seems a good egg, and genuinely cares, which is more than can be said for most of his predecessors.
But would argue this thread is a little too soon - he's still very much on a tightrope (poor cunt, he probably shouldn't be) in as much as it wasn't long ago, maybe 10 games or so, that he had the worst points per game record of any manager in our history. Lose 3 games on the spin and we could be 15th/16th, and then the commentary on him is very different. It's probably not fair, but that's the way of the world, particularly in modern football.
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threesixty
11:10 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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I was one of those who wanted him in. I was disappointed when he was essentially sacked for MP as I knew MP was a "cheque book manager" and Moyes was actually slowly bringing stability to the club. (having said that I was excited that MP had been given money so I wasn't that upset).
Second time round I was all for it and I'm glad I've been proven right.
I was impressed with Moyes' ability to get the squad fit and doing the basics. Something that I've never seen has have. Also his ability to find a solution when he couldn't just buy one. Thats a big skill. Something that Bilic, Sam and MP dont seem to able to do. Moyes converted Arnie, found a solution for Arthur & Creswell etc.. Thats a real skill.
I understood that would be at the expense of some flair maybe, I think that is how it should be. Do the basics first and then we can add the flair stuff. I think too many people think that the West Ham way should be flair without the basic hard work and defensive duties. I dont believe that. Even classic Barca tiki Taki had Puyol/Piquet and Mascherno.. amazing defensive players.
Man Utd would have messed up anyone and it did. Vaan Gaal and Jose are world class managers and they found it difficult, let alone Moyes. I think having Man U on Cv is similar to having Real Madrid, Rafa got sacked there but that doesnt mean anything either.
Sunderland has proven to be a shit club through and through. And above all I think Moyes is an honest guy and cant deal with all that. I just think he was desperate to prove himself again and probably didnt understand what he was taking on. I think the problem for Moyes and Sunderland is that Allardyce kept them up and he didnt. And that looks mad because in reality, Moyes is a better manager on paper than Sam.
Sociodad was Moyes thinking he was a world class manager because he managed Man Utd. Thought he'd do a McClaren and do well in an easier league etc.. I think language matters and being in English in Holland or Germany is very different than Spain. If you cant communicate effectively I dont see how you can manage a club properly. Management is after all about communication.
At the end of the day football is a jigsaw puzzle. Some pieces just fit together at a particular time. I think Moyes has talent and has found a fit. It doesnt mean he would be successful anywhere on earth. I think thats just how life is. Haller could bang in 30 for Ajax this year... horses for courses and all that.
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nerd
10:27 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Or 7 points from the top at the half Way stage .
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Sydney_Iron
10:13 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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He has done ok IMO, i think most of us were expecting a relegation scrap and we are not in that for a change, but lets not get too carried away! Been a few decent performances but we are 10th in the 20 team division at more or less the half way mark.
It aint nothing to be getting that excited about IMO..........
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Manuel
10:03 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Canvey - Yep, it's all the fans fault. Prick.
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dealcanvey
10:00 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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No toxic fans in grounds booing at any opportune moment.
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Alfs
2:56 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Moyes had 9 months at Man U whereas OGS had already been there for two years yet began just as badly if I recall.
Anyone replacing Ferguson was on a hiding to nothing. He was a class apart and the player's respect/fear of him was second to none. The club was bound to spiral for a bit after he went.
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nychammer
2:25 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Agree with Darby
He came to Man Utd with expectations through the roof. Wasn't a complete disaster but also wasn't Fergie and wasn't given the time - nobody has filled that role.
Sunderland were complete shit. Nobody would have had a chance of rescuing that mess.
I think both of those experiences has to have to have had him questioning himself and a knock to the confidence, but to be fair he's come here and done well. We're not complete dogshit and we're not expecting him to win us the league, and I think he has the room and license to build his own team and its suiting both him and the club very well.
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gph
1:31 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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His biggest mistake at Sunderland was going there in the first place.
It was a basket case of a club.
Although his second biggest mistake was giving heavy hints that he realised his first mistake.
He'd been better off going to a Championship club on the up, or at least one he coulld put on the up. Instead of a lead-weighted Premiership one.
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Darby_
1:25 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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I think he was chewed up and spat out at Man Utd. His results were no worse than his successors and he wasn’t given the time that Fergie was when he first took over.
To be honest, I suspect that broke him for a while. He made a silly mistake going to Spain. Completely different game with different language etc. I said that at the time. He should have gone to Hibs or something instead of being a fish out of water in Spain.
I’m not sure what happened with Sunderland. I didn’t follow it closely. Either way, I think his confidence was shot by then, but like lots of people, he’s eventually pulled himself out of a bad place.
So for me, he was always a good manager who went through a tough period where he was probably low on confidence. But the whole experience could have made him a tougher person. He seems to be back to his best anyway - Brighton aside.
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dolph
12:40 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Realism is also understanding that a lot of us thought our squad was utter gash at the beginning of the season, and now after a very good start, people can fume after a mediocre display against Brighton...who we didn't lose to.
Even in defeat against Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal we looked like we could and maybe should get something out those matches.
It's been a throughly odd watch so far, in the sense that we turn up and look like a solid unit able to give anyone a game. We haven't been dicked on and embarrassed (yet). The one time it was looking like we were, we make an astounding comeback with a last minute goal of the season contender. Against spurs of all teams.
I love myself some Moyesy.
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ChillTheKeel
12:23 Thu Jan 7
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Has the season finished then? The jury's still out for me. A good cup run however....
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Vexed
11:42 Wed Jan 6
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Not negative, just realistic about where we'll finish rather than some silly cunt getting overexcited after a few good results thinking we're getting in the champions league.
It takes a manager with more than a plan A to do things like that.
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Willtell
11:21 Wed Jan 6
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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No. He’s a dour Scot that is happiest bringing good young Championship level players through to the PL. and they react best to his coaching.
We will reach a point where the only way to get better is to sign some established stars because the fans will get bored of £3m signings. The moans will be that we should be competing with Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal, and Manchester clubs. Probably even Leicester, Southampton and Leeds.
If GSB give him big budgets or new owners come in, his dithering over who to sign will start the fans calling for him to go like they did at Manchester United...
I hope I’m wrong as we could do with a long term manager but fans today are 1 game fickle...
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Tomshardware
11:00 Wed Jan 6
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Just how will we 'outgrow' Moyes's ability Willtell? Do you mean we'll then be ready for a big name like Pellegrini? And bring in some big name players like Felipe Anderson?
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New Jersey
10:51 Wed Jan 6
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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We're about evens at the bookies for a top 10 finish, probably worth a punt, well better than garlicks share tip!!
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Sir Alf
10:34 Wed Jan 6
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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I'm Mr Negative JLAP and a miserable git to boot.
We are mid-table.
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JLAP
10:32 Wed Jan 6
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Mid table mediocrity or 3 points off fourth?
Depends if you’re a negative cunt or not?
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Sir Alf
10:29 Wed Jan 6
Re: Moyes - What's the difference?
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Agree with the first part WillTell.
The "stars" don't always listen so easily and possibly think they know better / are better than the manager ( well they probably are ) hence do as they are instructed. Its an argument put forward for having an ex-star player as manager. Of course in reality it can work with either type of manager. Mourinho, Wenger examples of non-players or in Wenger's case a journeyman that got great results and lots of trophies. There are many many more like this as the skill set for management requires psychological understanding, recruitment and so many other skills. Probably why the continentals appoint "coaches". But at the rich teams, always tends to be an ex-star player.
Its why we should avoid any Billy Big Bollocks signings like Arnie who would upset the team spirit and togetherness too. I can imagine Moyes was sneered at by the Man United lads as he came from Everton with no trophies. Ferguson had built his reputation at Aberdeen with trophies despite not being a player as such and it was long ago before the modern egomaniac footballers arrived.
Real Sociadad would been partly due this "Who is David Moyes" in Spain would also have contributed and also the language barrier.
He should have never have taken the Sunderland job. I think he said after 8 games he didn't have the players in the squad of quality to stay up and there was no money to change it.
The other thing with Moyes is that he is the sort that needs a bit of time to work on the organisation and foundations. With the owners we have and the modest budgets on offer he is a decent fit for the next 2 - 5 years ( assuming those FvckWits are still hanging around like a bad smell ). It will be interesting to see where are in that time. He ( Moyesiah) is definitely one that goes for evolution rather than revolution so I am hopeful of steady, if unspectacular improvement.
That said, if we are the new Everton and regularly finish in the top half every season and flirt with or get into Europe then it will be the best era league wise in 60 years I have been suffering. Even the glory days of Moore, Hurst , Peters in the 60s and 70s and then in the 80s where we won the cup and finished 3rd in 85/86 we were still in relegation scraps every few years.
Anyway, lets see where we are end of season when like all fickle fans I reserve the right to turn on Moyes if we have managed to slide down to the lower echelons of the league once again :-)
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